Track 1
Ronnie:   let me give you this you know five, or ten minutes of my life.
Ken: Perfect
Ronnie: My granddad, Joe Roberts, had a ranch on Nutty Brown Road, which is, uh, right off of 290
Ken: Yep
Ronnie: in 1950.  I was born in 1950, and, uh, my dad had started his cedar business as a like a wholesaler. And there’s different things, you know, people call like this, to me like, the cedar business is like logging in the Northeast, Northwest.  You know, like you have your loggers …
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: It’s really timber loggers, is what it is.
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: You know, people call ‘em cedar choppers and this and that.  It’s kind of a little bit of a derogatory term but, anyways, uh, my granddad had been in the cedar business for quite a few years, and, uh, I think he probably helped my dad ‘cause he was real close to my dad.  He started in the cedar business up in Kerrville, and, uh, so my mother stayed in, uh, my granddad’s ranch house over there on, uh, Nutty Brown Road.  When I was born I was born in Seton Hospital. – the old Seton Hospital – it ain’t there no more. 
Ken: Me too
Ronnie:  Yeah (laugh together)  And, uh, anyway, uh, uh, so life was good, you know.  He moved on up.  He moved, uh, he bought a, he had a house on Bandera Road, which is between right out of Kerrville that goes to Bandera.
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: And, uh, he put in a cedar post yard there, so’s he’s getting’ his business built up, ‘cause it’s like the wholesale business.  That’s what my granddaddy was in.  He was in the wholesale
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: Like when you have a cedar post yard you’re a wholesaler.  You know people come, lumber, you know back in the day, uh, these people from the lumber yards and stuff, or ranchers would come and buy
Ken: Right
Ronnie: OK, and, uh, the life was going good, and then he moved to Hunt, Texas, which is a little town at the headwaters of the North fork and South fork of the Guadalupe River.
Ken: Yes, I know exactly where it is
Ronnie: Yeah. out of Kerrville.  Back then, that was my heyday, I mean that’s, yeah I was about five years old and, I used to run around, I looked like a little Mexican boy, no shirt, no shoes, you know and I’d go either way to the river, ‘cause Hunt it was, you know it’s like this and I could go the North fork or the South fork, I could go fishing an do all that stuff, but anyway it’s like a Mayberry, you know, for me. 
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie:  That was my good -- that was my good period of life.  Well I had an older brother that died when I was, uh, I was five years old and he was about six and a half.  He died, he had a brain tumor and he died.  And, um, somehow my dad just kind-of – you know, he didn’t deal with it too good, yeah, he, he, he started drinking a lot and, ‘cause he was like a deacon of the church and he was a song master
Ken: Uh-hum
Ronnie: he helped build a little church there in Hunt.  Yeah, he was a very upstanding citizen and, uh, he just, he just kind’a went off, yeah, by the wayside, and, uhm, uh, OK, and then that was like in, uh, in ’58, my mother committed suicide.
Ken: Oh.  I’m sorry.
Ronnie: You know, and, uh, so that was like another thing for him, you know
Unknown person: Yeah, you were just 8 years old
Ronnie: Yeah, and, uh,
Ken: Uhm
Ronnie: So he just kind of went to hell in a handbag
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: My grandparents took me and my three sisters in.  My youngest sister was one year old, a little over a year old.  And they lived in Oak Hill and he had a cedar post yard in the old frontage road was the, uh, there is a post office up there now, uh, where our property was, and, um, he, he had a cedar post yard, and, uh, he took us in.  I was eight years old, and, uh, he raised us.
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: He was blind.  He was a blind man. 
Ken: Really?
Ronnie: My grandmother, uh, she
Ken: Did he still work in that yard blind like that?
Ronnie:  Well my grandmother did most of the work
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: She was a, she was a Patterson, so, goes back to the Pattersons over there in Eanes.  They had a big, pretty big ranch
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: Probably had fifteen hundred acres right on Barton Creek
Ken: Uh-huh, right, I’ve heard of that name
Ronnie: there’s actually a Patterson Lane that goes right down
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: There’s still a couple Pattersons that live over there. But most of ‘em sold their land, you know.
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie, And, uh, anyway, uh, so they raised me and my sisters and stuff and that’s how I kind-of had my ties to the cedar business and stuff
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: you know, and, uh, I knew some of those people over there, and, that sold posts.  There were all people from Eanes that sold posts to my grandparents
Ken: Uh-huh, right.  So they were buying from the folks over in the Eanes School District. 
Ronnie: Yeah, yeah,
Ken: ‘cause that was before, that was after the Low Water bridge was built. 
Ronnie: Yeah, this was in the ‘60’s. 
Ken: Yeah.  They were still selling, you know, cutting and selling cedar
Ronnie: Oh, yeah.  Yeah.  The Browns, there was a family called the Browns, they was, uh, well I’m just telling ‘ya what I remember, you know, there was a Charlie and Mike and Baldy, they called him Baldy.  And, uh, their, I did,
Ronnie: Do you have this book here?
Ken: Yes, I talked to the lady who wrote that book.
Ronnie: Really?
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: OK
Ken: Yeah, it’s a good book.
Ronnie: It talks about the Browns.  There used to be a Brown Lane over there
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: OK. And, uh, there’s a lot of stuff in here about the, uh, the Teagues, Homer Teagues and, uh,
Ken: Yes
Ronnie: The Browns and, there used to be a Brown Lane in what’s, uh, I can’t remember that road now that cuts through to, uh, 360.  That used to be Brown Lane. 
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: Um, gosh, I get a little deficient here with – it’s, it’s the one that, right past, right by Barton Creek Mall.  But anyway
Ken: Yeah, I don’t know that area real well
Ronnie: But see, yeah, but see those, those people, uh, they used to have a lot of land over at the end of the Browns and the Teagues.  The Teagues actually donated the land for the first school
Ken: Yes
Ronnie: and, over there in, like, there’s a lot of my relatives in here.  The Oestricks
Ken: Were you related to the Teagues?
Ronnie:  Yeah, yeah, some of my granddad’s um, I don’t really have a family tree as such, but, uh,
Ken: But your grandmother was a Patterson
Ronnie: Yes, she was a Patterson.
Ken: And what was her daddy’s name, do you recall?
Ronnie: Uh, Robert Payton
Ken: Robert Payton
Ronnie: Yeah.  Uh, his story goes back, huh, he has in, uh, he was born a month after his dad was shot and killed in that feud down in the Sutton-Patterson feud down in Gonzalez County.
Ken: Oh, I’ve heard of that feud
Ronnie: Yeah, yeah, it’s a big, I mean it’s bigger than the Hatfields and McCoys
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: It’s really bigger than that ‘cause there was, it went on for so many years, so many people killed.  John Wesley Hardin was involved in it.
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: Manning …  the Clements brothers and, anyway, uh, he was born and then, uh, he wound up up here somehow, and, uh, he, uh, he stayed there, and he lived a good life, you know.  And he had a lot of land, but you know that land wasn’t worth much
Ken: It wasn’t worth anything
Ronnie: No, I mean you couldn’t raise cattle on it. 
Ken: No
Ronnie: It wasn’t cattle country
Ken: No
Ronnie: It wasn’t sheep and goat country and it was all cedar
Ken: Yeah (laugh together)
Ronnie: and, uh
Ken: Do you know the name – the Emmett Shelton?
Ronnie: Oh yeah, yeah
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: Oh yeah
Ken: I’ve listened to his tapes.  He made tapes
Ronnie: Tapes, oh yeah.  He had a long knowledge
Ken: He did.  They named the bridge after him.  Did you know that?  That low water bridge there, that’s the Emmett Shelton Bridge.
Ronnie: But, you know, he was a lawyer, OK
Ken: Yeah, yeah
Ronnie: And a lot of them people lost their land.  The poor people over there, the, all the Teagues and the, oh, you know a lot of them people, because their kids would get in trouble and they would trade land for legal service.
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: And that’s how he really probably accumulated – I mean I’m not saying that there is anything wrong with that
Ken: Right.  He says that he, you know, of course, he says he was their friend, and
Ronnie: Oh, yeah
Ken: you know, and
Ronnie: They would go to him
Ken: They would go to him
Ronnie: Yeah
Ken: But he ended up with a lot of land
Ronnie: A lot of land
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: And, but, you know, even my great uncle which lived here in Dripping Springs – I call this the Golden R. That’s why I like living here.  And I’ll tell you why – because it’s like Eanes is over there and then, uh some of my family goes back to Bee Caves in the 1870’s -- Bee Caves, then Dripping Springs and Oakhill,  all that land right here and close to Barton Creek was the Pattersons and the Roberts and they all lived close to Barton Creek.
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: And I feel like Barton Creek is only – I could almost throw a rock to Barton Creek
Ken: Could you really.  I had no idea
Ronnie: Yeah
Ken: it came up this far.
Ronnie: Yeah, the headwater goes up even past Dripping Springs, you know, but
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: Anyway, uh, that kind of gives you my little two minute spiel.  What, uh, what
Ken: What am I doin’.  Well, apparently…I’ll give you a card and I’m, uh, this is, I’m, I’ve been teaching at Southwestern for thirty one years
Ronnie: Where at?
Ken: Southwestern in Georgetown.  
Ronnie: In Georgetown?
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: OK
Ken: For thirty-one years
Ronnie: I’ll be darn.  Congratulations
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: That’s a very noble, uh, profession. What do you teach?
Ken: Economics
Ronnie: Really!
Ken: Economics
Ronnie: OK
Ken: And, uh,
Ronnie: OK
Ken: I’ve always, um, I’ve always, uh, sort-of studied, uh
Ronnie: You grew up in West Austin?
Ken: I grew up on Vista Lane
Ronnie: Uh ---a hummingbird – (laugh)
Ken: That’s a nice feeder.
Ronnie:   Is your wife – will she be looking for you?
Ken: She’s from Houston.  She went into town to get…maybe have her a little lunch
0:10:49.1, Ken continues with his bio…
Track 2
Ken: Where I grew up
Ronnie: That’s a lot of good stuff in that
Ken: And so I started out on this thing, and I’m thinking, you know, ‘cause I went to O’Henry and I met, I knew a Melba Teague and I knew Luther Pierce, and I knew some other guys, and we would
Ronnie: You knew some of the Pierces?
Ken: Pierces, uh-huh
Ronnie: Pierces, yes sir.  My, uh, grandmother’s, my grandmother Patterson, was, OK, my grandfather Roberts, my dad’s father and mother
Ken: What were their names?  What were their original-?
Ronnie: Joe Roberts and, uh, Mary Patterson
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: Well, her sister was a, married a Pierce. 
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: Litten Pierce
Ken: Litten Pierce?
Ronnie: Yes, and there is a lot of stuff
Ken: There’s a lot of stuff about Litten Pierce
Ronnie: There is, yeah
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: They had a rock quarry, uh-ha, a few years ago we lived in Oak Hill and, uh, uh, I had some rock work done there that I owned a little rock.  The porch is done, you know, some flagstone, and this guy drove up with a load of rock, and, uh, I looked at him and I said “man, he looked, you look like a Patterson.”  Pattersons have a certain look.  They kind of have these little beady eyes
Ken: (laughs)
Ronnie: I said “man,” I said “man, you look like a damned Patterson,” you know, and this guy got out of his truck
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: And it was a, it was uh, I can’t remember his name right now, but he was a Pierce.  He had a rock, they have a rock quarry out there in, uh, Liberty Hill, somewhere down in that area.
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: and, uh, I couldn’t believe it, man, it’s like
Ken: You could see it
Ronnie: I could recognize it, yeah, see them eyes, you know
Ken: huh
Ronnie: But anyway, uh, yeah, yeah it’s kind of a tough life over there but you know, uh, Ken, I think those, uh, you know from my, you know, having digested …
Ken: (laugh)
Ronnie: They were like, they was stuck in little Appalachia over there.
Ken: Over at Eanes, or, uh
Ronnie: In Eanes
Ken: Ya-huh
Ronnie: In Eanes.  And the the Bull Creek area
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: They liked livin’ … nobody bothered them
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: You know, they liked this livin’ kind-of under the radar, you know, I mean that’s just the Irish.  See, I’ve got that same thing, that’s why I live out here, I don’t, I can’t stand a house like next door to me
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: I moved over to Mason for a year.  I though “well, I’m gonna’ get away from Austin
Ken: After you retired?
Ronnie: Yeah
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: And my wife and I moved to Mason
Ken: Back to the town?
Ronnie: Yeah, inside the town
Ken:  a beautiful little town
Ronnie: Oh, beautiful little town.  It was great and I couldn’t stomach it. It’s like, it’s like people next door to me, you know, I mean we had this old 1920 house, historical house
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: And
Ken: Was it one of those old rock houses?
Ronnie: Uh, no, it was wood-framed it was, uh, bungalow house, you know
Ken: Uh-hum
Ronnie: and I couldn’t stand it.
Ken: It happens
Ronnie: I mean I looked, I mean I was almost like ready to go to a mental institution
Ken: uh-huh
Ronnie: But I think it’s just this Ir.., you know, like there’s a lot of Irish culture over there in Eanes, you know, those people in that day ‘cause the land wasn’t worth anything but they lived off the land, you know. 
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: They lived off the land
Ken: You say “Irish culture,” you, is that what you, is that
Ronnie: I grew up in Irish – you know, I feel like there’s an Irish culture
Ken: An Irish culture
Ronnie: uh, what do they call it?  You know, they’ve got a word for it, uh, self… you know, you raise your own garden
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: you, uh, they hunted deer
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: They lived, livin’ off the land, well they called that, what is the word?
Ken: Yeah, subsistence.
Ronnie: Subsistence.
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: Yeah, they were subsistence people
Ken: Yeah, fished
Ronnie: Fished, yeah, and, uh, hunted, and uh, lived off the land, I mean, yeah, and that’s, that’s kind of why they liked it out there because it was land nobody really wanted.  People from Austin would buy that land, these little lots of land, but they wouldn’t live out there, they’d just go out there and cut wood off of it
Ken: um-hum
Ronnie: you know.  And, I mean even, you know – they talked about it here – that’s a great book
Ken: It is a great book
Ronnie: It really gives you a lot of, uh, I think it was written in ’86 for the, the Texas sesquicentennial
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: And, uh, you know, it’s just like those  people, uh, they just, they just didn’t want to be bothered
Ken:  Where do you think they came from?  Do you have any, any clue
Ronnie:  Oh, uh, well most of them come like, my family, you know, from Tennessee. They were all from Appalachia.
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: I mean that they just, they just kept wanting to get away, you know, they kept moving from Pennsylvania and they moved down to West Virginia, you know, and Tennessee, and
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: North Carolina, South Carolina, Mississippi, you know,
Ken: Right
Ronnie: where the Appalachian mountain range run and they migrated over here, you know, when Sam Houston called for help they all come from the Appalachians.
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: You know, that’s where all them, I mean, they’re the ones that, uh, I mean they put their, their ole’ rifle over their shoulder and come marching, you know, we needed some help over here and man, they, they liked to fight
Ken: Yeah.  A guy named Jim Webb, he’s a Congressman?
Ronnie: Oh, yeah.
Ken: Have you read that book?
Ronnie: No, what’s the name?  I want to get it.
Ken: What is that book? Uh, Born Fighting
Ronnie: Born Fighting
Ken: It’s a good book.  You’re gonna like it.
Ronnie: You’ve read it?
Ken: I have read it.
Ronnie: I definitely want to
Ken: I think you’re absolutely on target on this thing about being from Appalachia, and, you know
Ronnie: Oh, yeah
Ken:  and, um,
Ronnie: I mean they were a fighting, I mean they were, hell, they’ve been fighting over there in Ireland
Ken: Yeah, it’s about the Scots-Irish, you know
Ronnie: Oh, yeah, Scots-Irish
Ken: I’ve got to tell you something that my sister said because it really, to me, when you said Irish – because my sister is, uh, you know, we, like I said, we’re about as old hill country in a sense, I mean I just, I spent all of my time on motorcycles, fishin’, huntin’ in the hill country.
Ronnie:  Yes
Ken: I was right on the edge (talking over each other)
Ronnie: I spent my whole life fishin’ and huntin’
Ken: …and, and, you know, I remember coming out here. We took the back way to Dripping Springs to see her about three years ago
Ronnie: Your sister lives over in Bear Creek?
Ken: She lives over on Bear Creek
Ronnie: How far do you go down in there? You said…
Ken: About a mile or two
Ronnie: Yeah
Ken: You cross the creek
Ronnie: You cross the creek, yeah. That little ‘ole water low water
Ken: Yeah, OK
Ronnie: A few of my wife’s brothers lived, lived over there.
Ken: My sister bought, I want to say that little place was the Settemier place.  We, she had, if you remember If you remember Eanes there was a horse stable.  She used to, she used to love horses
Ronnie: Yeah
Ken: There was a horse stable on Bee Cave Road, way back -- the only place there.  We would go over there and
Ronnie: Yeah, really
Ken: She would do that
Ronnie: She loved horses
Ken: She did.  She grew, you know, then she bought a
Ronnie: Is she older than you?
Ken: She’s five years older than me
Ronnie: Really
Ken: Yeah.  I was talking to her yesterday, ‘cause we had gone to a, I remember talking to my wife, and we were driving the back way about three years ago, we had these beautiful spring rains and it was just a carpet of green grass and I said, you know, this looks like Ireland to me.  And, and I’m talking to my sister and then she said “looks like fockin’ Ireland (with Irish accent).
Ronnie: (laugh together)
Ken: She said, and I said “you know, I just wonder if, if there’s not something to that.
Ronnie:  Oh yeah, really
Ken: Is that some sort of, you know,
Ronnie: I think it is, it’s like my family is, like my granddad, he’s more like my father, actually, because my dad ‘kind-a went, went south
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: you know, he just, you know, he was a, he, he turned totally away from God, and
Ken: Isn’t that something
Ronnie: Then he lost his son
Ken: sure
Ronnie: and, uh, then, you know, you think things can’t get worse, but they can, man.   Then he lost his wife
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: My mother
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: Yeah, I know, he just – but anyway, I thank God that my grandparents took care of him.  He’s blind and I was like his right hand man, and, man, he taught me a lot of ____, I mean, he taught me how to do a lot of things, you know, and, uh, uh, he’d work my ass to death, I mean, boys were like, uh, boys were like mules, you know
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: Uh
Ken: Did he, did he have his place in Hunt still, or did he move
Ronnie: No, that was my, uh, I’m talking about my granddad.  My dad lost, lost all that
Ken: Oh, so that was your dad
Ronnie: My granddad, he had a cedar post yard there on the Hill. At that time, when things went to hell, you know, it was like in 1958, and, uh, he took me and my three sisters in.
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: And, uh, they raised us, you know, uh
Ken: Where did ya’ll live? Where did you grow up? 
Ronnie: In Oak Hill
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: on the Old Fredericksburg Highway, you know, it’s called the Old Fredericksburg Loop, Old Fredericksburg Highway, it’s um, it’s just, you know, it’s one of them things where the old 290 when they re-straightened it out
Ken: um-hum
Ronnie: You know, there was some of these old Loops, yeah, there’s still places up here where they have they have the Old 290 Loops
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: Uh, but anyway, he, uh, you know, and that was the culture we grew up in, I mean he had his hounds, he loved his fox hounds
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: He had fox hounds and, uh, you know, uh, he, he loved to hunt.  You know, he’d tell me how many, back when he was young, uh, he, he did all kinds of things, I mean, he would farm over there, he, he knew, he knew that area, even when he was blind, it’s like I was, I started driving when I was probably twelve years old
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: I drove for years without a driver’s license, driving him around, you know
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: And, uh, we’d take the hounds over there on the Rob Roy Ranch, which is in Eanes, and, uh the Patterson place, we’d dump our hounds, he loved, he loved to hear them, I mean, I didn’t, I wasn’t into that shit, you know what I mean, he, he liked to listen to them, you know
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: the hounds, you know what I mean, he had six or eight hounds
Ken: How old was he then?
Ronnie: Uh, he, well he was pretty close to, uh, he was about, uh, sixty
Ken: Um-hum. That’s a job
Ronnie: Oh, man, I mean, if somebody dumped four kids on my front porch
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: On one of my kids, I’d go ‘Man, I’ve have to think about that’
Ken: Do you have kids?
Ronnie: Uh, yeah, I’ve got four
Ken: Four?
Ronnie: Yeah, and uh, but, you know, education wasn’t important to them, you know, it’s like that Irish thing, it’s like, boys worked, but the girls would go to school, I mean, there’s even a list of some of my aunts in there in those little schools, uh, uh, anywhere you see a Roberts, that’s my, that’s my relative.
Ken: Well there was a, as I recall, it was probably that book, a Tiney, Tiney Roberts
Ronnie: Tiney Teague, you know
Ken: Tiney Teague
Ronnie: Yeah, see, uh, I, I think some one of his, uh, sisters married, uh, a Teague. Or something like that
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: or, I don’t remember, I was, I, I looked at a family tree, but I can’t remember it, you know
Ken: So, did you ever hang out with the, with the cedar chopper kids, your age?
Ronnie: No, uh, but they all, uh, OK, they, they would bring, uh, what I remember, I’ll just, you know, I’ll tell you what I remember, uh, uh, there was a Ben Teague.  He lived on Brody Ranch, which is where you, Brody shopping center it’s right on Barton Creek
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: It’s, it’s at corner of Ben White, 360, and Lamar
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: They call it the Old Brody Place.
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: Ben Teague, he used to bring cedar posts up there, uh, to our, you know, yard, and, uh
Ken: Did he have a truck?
Ronnie: Yeah, they had a truck, yeah, and he’d bring ‘em in, uh, the Brown brothers, Mike, Charlie, and Baldy, they cut cedar off of the, the Dellana Ranch over there in Eanes.  And, uh, they were real regs, I mean the whole period at a time, when I was growing up, time I was probably eight years old ‘till eighteen, you know, for quite a few years
Ken: Right
Ronnie: They would bring it in.  And like I say at one time their family owned land over there
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: But they lost it, you know, either couldn’t pay the taxes
Ken: Taxes
Ronnie: or legal, you know
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: Needing a … pilfering it off. The lawyers suck ‘em dry
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: (Laugh)
Ken: Yeah, yeah
Ronnie: I wouldn’t say they sucked ‘em dry, but, you know
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: But anyway, and so they were, they were like, uh, you know I would say, you know, my granddad was, he got in, somehow he got in, you know he was blind, he got into the wholesaling business, so, he, he started the yard on South Lamar over there at, uh, Lamar, and, you know it was back in the, back in the boondocks, back in the day, and they was right across from that Brody shopping center
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: It’s at Lamar and 360 and Ben White.
Ken: Right
Ronnie: He started out there then he moved, uh, to Oak Hill, uh, there’s a place called the Bult (?) Place. He had about ten acres on 290, which was the old 290, and, uh, then he moved into, uh, Old Fredericksburg Highway where I grew up
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: And then he had a yard with his brother here in Dripping Springs.  I called him Uncle Ollie, he was my granddads brother, he was my great uncle really.  And, uh, uh, there, there was some, uh, articles in a magazine at my aunt Virginia’s.  If you ever, if you ever get a chance
Ken: I know, I met her. She’s
Ronnie: Talk to her, you know, ‘cause she has, I think, she has some articles that was in a magazine, I don’t know if it was like Texas Monthly or some kind of magazine about, had an article about my Uncle Ollie.  Uh, Roberts, Ollie Roberts.
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: Uh, but anyway, she
Ken: This Aunt Virginia, is she the one that – Virginia Turner
Ronnie: Yeah, Virginia Turner, yes
Ken: So she’s the one that knows this Millie Williams, who’s in Burnet
Ronnie: Was it Williams, or Simons?
Ken: Uh, what?
Ronnie: Simons?
Ken: Millie , Millie , uh
Ronnie: Well, I was gonna’ show you something here, you know, I don’t know, uh, I thought you said Simons. Because the article in this, uh, in Medina
Ken: Gol-lee, I haven’t seen that
Ronnie: It’s got some articles about, uh, Cedars fed many a family.  Willie Simons, he grew up with the Bull Creek area, so there was a whole different clan, I mean they was different clans
Ken: Yes
Ronnie: than the Bull Creek
Ken: Yes
Ronnie: There’s rough country, see.  My granddad had a whiskey still back in the day, back in the prohibition. 
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: Yeah, I mean, ‘cause they liked it, you know
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: you know, it’s like this Irish shit, they liked livin’ out in the woods
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: And they liked their whiskey, and, uh, but here’s a thing about this Willie Simons that I thought you might enjoy, uh, a couple of stories about Rex, I mean look at that log, that’s Rex Simons, he’s still living
Ken: Isn’t that amazing!  He can pick that up
Ronnie: Hot damn, I mean, that’s, that’s a big ass log
Ken: It is. Man, this is a cool book
Ronnie: Yeah, it’s cute, it’s got some stuff, there’s uh, some things that some of my other relatives on the Patterson side lived up there, that, uh, uh, she has a like-a history of that area , people in the _____
Track 3
Ken: That post must weigh
Ronnie: Oh, shit
Ken: 300 pounds
Ronnie: Oh, at least.  I mean they got a strong, man.  I’ve seen that yard, uh, I’ve been up there in Medina
Ken: Is it still there?
Ronnie: I don’t know if it’s still there, a few years ago it was, and he still had a, he works, I think Rex worked for the County, but he’s still a, he might be somebody you could hook up with, you know
Ken: Yeah, his name is, so this is Rex Simons
Ronnie: Rex Simons. Willie Simons is probably not alive, I don’t think
Ronnie: The one before that is Willie, Willie Simons, his dad.
Ken: Willie Simons, OK
Ronnie: See, he grew up in the Bull Creek area there
Ken: Oh, man.  I’d love to make a, I, I’ll just buy this book, I imagine it’s for sale
Ronnie: Uh, yeah they’ve got it up there, there’s a little store called the, uh, uh, Lovelace Orchards.  They called Medina the capital, I mean the apple capital of Texas.
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: And, uh, there’s this Love Orchards, this lady sells the books in that
Ken: OK, I know it.  I know, we were there
Ronnie: They’ve got the great apple pies and stuff
Ken: They’ve got the
Ronnie: They put ‘em in this, uh, little series, they’ve got like Series I, and Series II. They used to be little books and then they combined them, so I’ve got, I’ve got another book in there, the Series I, uh, yeah, Series I, that has the stuff about some of my other relatives, the Suttons over there. 
Ken: That’s a pretty river
Ronnie: Oh, it’s beautiful out there.
Ken: It really is
Ronnie: It really is beautiful up there, I mean it’s just, it’s kind-of back, uh, I mean, you feel like you’re out in nowhere out there, you know. 
Ken: This says Hatfield.  I wonder if they’re related
Ronnie: Uh, she has a real estate business.  You might call.  Uh, Hatfield Real Estate. 
Ken: Oh, OK
Ronnie: Just, just write down Hatfield Real Estate. 
Ken: You know, we were just out there, like a year ago
Ronnie: Oh, really?
Ken: Last spring break.  Uh, we went to, um, Camp Wood.
Ronnie: Oh, yeah
Ken: Which was a huge …
Ronnie: That’s right by
Ken: cedar cutting place
Ronnie: Oh, yeah.  See that’s, and that’s why, uh, my dad went out there was, I was going to show you one thing here, uh, I mean (laugh) let me see if the uh, address or phone book, or phone number or something.  1997, I don’t know if she’s still alive, but, it’s got some interesting stories.  Another good thing in one of these books, it’s like two Series, this is Series II.  What I enjoyed was, uh, they give a very descriptive method of how they used to burn their coal kilns, kilns, burn coal
Ken: Yes
Ronnie: Which is what my granddad used to do, my uncles used to do, my great uncles,
Ken: Right
Ronnie: And my grandmother even burned coal to buy clothes for school. 
Ken: She’d make … make charcoal
Ronnie: Charcoal
Ken: And where would they sell that I wonder?
Ronnie: They would peddle it in town
Ken: Just like off of, off of a wagon
Ronnie: A wagon, yeah, and, uh, in this book here it talks about my great uncle Lon, Lonnie Roberts
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: That this guy talks about how he, people requested his coal because it was such good coal
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: I remember my granddad talking about it.  He said, you know, you had stay up all night with that kiln, you couldn’t let it go because if it flared up, they built it like a teepee.  And then they covered it with dirt. 
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: I mean, it would be up pretty high. But if it ever got like a little opening in it and you went to sleep, it would be nothing but ashes
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: And, uh, my granddad talked about you had to stay up with that.  And then they would, when it was cooked, then they would rake it down, rake it out, and, uh, cool off, and they’d put it in, a, burlap bags
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: And they’d go peddle it.  He put it on a wagon and take it to town.  So they were just living off the land.
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: They were living off the land
Ken: You know, I wonder if that didn’t, think about Ireland, you know, you know, I wonder if that hadn’t passed down for generations and generations, see, ‘cause they burned peat
Ronnie: Yeah
Ken: And stayed up all, you know, and all that stuff
Ronnie: Right.  Uh, but, yeah, its’ a, a, I was gonna’ show you something here.  Oh, let me give you this guy’s name, right here.  It’s probably one of the biggest cedar yards I’d ever seen.  And I bought, see all my fence posts out front out here
Ken: Yes
Ronnie: I hand hewed every one of them by hand
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: With this axe. This is like, I kind-a did it as, uh, as something for my grandfather
Ken: Uh-huh, yeah, right
Ronnie: I hand peeled it.  This axe that I grew up with, that I’ve got a big ‘ole scar right here
Ken: You don’t
Ronnie: Time I was eight or ten years old, I used the same axe, I hand peeled the bark off of every one of those posts by myself.
Ken: I’ll be darned.
Ronnie: It took me weeks and weeks.  And it was just kind of like a little memorial, but anyway, this
Ken: Is that a cedar axe you’ve got?  A double-bit cedar axe
Ronnie:  Oh, yeah.  It’s called the Kerrville axe.
Ken: I would like to see that axe
Ronnie: I’ll show it to you (laughs). 
Ken: OK (laughs)
Ronnie: The Stephens, uh, Stephens Cedar Yard, it’s been there since the 1930s. S T E P H E N S.  Uh, his name is Jerry, Jerry Stephens.  And it’s been run by his family since the 1930s.
Ken: And where is it located?
Ronnie: In Ingram, Texas.  I N G R A M.  It’s close to Hunt.  It’s between Kerrville and
Ken: Oh, Sure
Ronnie: On highway 39
Ken: Right, right, right
Ronnie: And, uh, his phone number is, uh, I’ll just give ‘ya his phone number
Ken: OK
Ronnie: (talking over each other) go ahead
Ken: go ahead…he’s related to you, right?
Ronnie: Yeah, it’s 830-367-5341.  And man, he’s he knows my dad
Ken: Oh, good
Ronnie: He’s, he’s been around
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: Uh, I ain’t noticed any such …  I mean he’s got cedar that’s back almost tall as that elm tree, I mean it’s a huge
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: He’s still operating a big time operation.  You know, it’s a little different.  They use forklifts now.
Ken: Well, if you lived in Llano you’d probably, I don’t know, you, I mean Mason, you, well you probably went this way.  But if you go through Lampasas
Ronnie: There’s probably
Ken: There’s a huge cedar yard right outside of Lampasas
Ronnie: Oh, really? Lampasas
Ken: And that’s where I’ve been getting (talking over each other)
Ronnie: Well, see, in, uh, in, uh, Cedar Park used to be one of the biggest ones, Kings
Ken: Kings, yes
Ronnie: King Cedar Posts, uh, he was a wholesaler
Ken: Right
Ronnie: Uh, you know, big thing, but, uh, there’s nothing there now, but all the cedar’s out, you know, people moved, and like I say, it’s, it’s really more like timber business. 
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: You know, uh, they would buy, uh, like a, say a guy that was a wholesaler, he would find a ranch, that this guy wants the cedar cut off
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: OK.  Like my granddad.  I mean, this is what they would do
Ken: Your granddad would be one of these guys that would find the ranch
Ronnie: Yeah
Ken: uh-huh
Ronnie: And, and you would give them, uh, 10%, like at that time in the ‘60’s it was about 10%, so when the guys, say if they brought in a hundred dollars worth of cedar, $10 went to the rancher.
Ken: Um-hum.  And the rest of it went to the cutter.
Ronnie: Correct, to the cutter, yeah.  And the other thing was they called it flat cutting.  Uh, usually that would be free, like, the cedar would be free, you, but you had to cut, say if my ranch, you know, say if I had a thousand acres.  You had to cut every cedar tree and then you take the posts, they’re yours.
Ken: Right
Ronnie: But you didn’t pay anything.
Ken: Right
Ronnie: They called that a flat cutting.
Ken: You’re preparing that for grazing
Ronnie: Yeah, they wanted to get rid of the cedar. 
Ken: Right
Ronnie: For grazing
Ken: but when they cut that off, and, and, by the 10%, and they cut it, and they sold the posts, they could high-grade that cedar they could just, they could take what they wanted
Ronnie: Right, yeah
Ken: and leave the rest
Ronnie: leave the rest, pick and choose, yeah
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: They’d go get the good, you know, the good, but you see the thing about the further west you go, like especially, uh, Medina, and, uh, Kerrville, it was virgin timber, I mean
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: In fact that guy, I, you know, it’s been a few ago when I wadn’t  very involved in these posts, but, I mean, he had some cedar logs ‘bought this big, straight as an arrow, and probably eighteen – twenty foot long.  I mean that’s virgin
Ken: That’s amazing
Ronnie: That’s virgin timber, you know
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: But it, yeah, yeah, you know, it gets down in these, these are the virgin timbers down in these creeks and places hard to get to
Ken: Yes
Ronnie: Get it out of
Ken: Right
Ronnie: Like this, I think even some of this story about this Rex Simons and his dad, I mean, it’s, it’s rough, you’ve got to get it out.
Ken: I wonder how they got that, I mean
Ronnie: Well they cut roads, we, um, I mean, they would cut, they called them cedar brake roads, you know, it’s like
Ken: Right
Ronnie: They would make their own little road, you know, wind around somehow, you know, to get their truck down in there
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: and load this stuff up, and, uh, it was pretty wild, you know, I mean, uh, I think I mentioned, uh, uh, there was another family that lived on the Gaines Ranch. Taylor Gaines, which is, uh, it’s at Mopac, 360
Ken: Yes
Ronnie: They owned all along Barton Creek on both sides
Ken: I heard that
Ronnie: of, uh, uh, there was an old family, but there was a, a, family of, uh, Mexicans, that, uh, lived on that ranch and they would bring a lot of cedar to my granddad, granddad, you know,
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: and they cut it off of the Gaines Ranch because it, you know, was all along Barton Creek, and there was just, a lot of virgin timber down in there. And, like I said, the ranchers wanted to get rid of that cedar, so, it was interesting, you know, we used to raise our own cows, we’d milk our own cow, I mean, I kind-of lived that life, you know, the subsistence thing
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: You know, we raised our own cows, we raised our own hogs, we had our own chickens,
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: We had our own garden
Ken: What kind of garden?
Ronnie: We would can, uh, can everything, you know, like you’d have your big garden, I mean our garden was probably as big as this back yard our bigger, and, uh, canned the tomatoes, canned the okra, canned the, the beets
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: I mean, all these different things, the turnips, uh, you know, we were just, I mean I guess that’s kind of how I learned to live
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: It was a, it was a throw back to that day
Ken: Right
Ronnie: Back over in England, you know
Ken: Right, right
Ronnie: And, uh, we lived, you know, we lived…  just lived a pretty subsistence – I mean my grandmother, the only thing she’d go to town to buy flour
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: Uh, chicken feed
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: And she’d take the feed sacks and make her clothes
Ken: Oh, is that right
Ronnie: Oh,yeah, I mean, we’re, I mean, I grew up in a, you know, much earlier year than my age
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie:  Because, see, my granddad’s born in 1902.  And, uh, uh, my grandmother was born in 1904, so they’re, you know, the culture in the era that I grew up in was much further back than, say somebody that was normally born in 1915
Ken: Yeah, yeah, yeah
Ronnie: uh
Ken: I’ve seen this change, I mean, it was a very, you know, back place, I mean, there was UT, it was the
Ronnie: Yeah
Ken: That was, there were the jobs there,
Ronnie: Yeah
Ken: But apart from that there were no jobs
Ronnie: Yeah
Ken:  I remember, I worked at the south, I worked for the Holiday House
Ronnie: Oh, man
Ken: I worked at the Holiday House
Ronnie: Which one?
Ken: I worked at the one, mainly the one on the Drag
Ronnie: Yeah
Ken: and we would go, of course, you probably remember this
Ronnie: Oh, the one on North Burnet Road
Ken: All the way, all the way down, was it, uh,
Ronnie: Barton Springs
Ken: Yeah, there, well Barton Springs Road, we hit that one, and then there was, what’s the name of that place over on South Congress, the furthest, it was the furthest south
Ronnie: The Pig Pen?
Ken: Pig, pig, pig stop…pig, pig
Ronnie: Pig something – pig pen, Pig Stop
Ken: Yeah, well, we’d drive from there
Ronnie: Everybody would cruise - we’d cruise back and forth
Ken: Yeah, go back and go all the way up
Ronnie: Oh, man, there was a lot of fights, like, if you were from North, if you were from North Austin
Ken: All of the time
Ronnie: and you come ‘ta
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: The one on Barton Springs
Ken: Oh, I know it
Ronnie: If you’re lookin’ for, cruising for trouble, they had the rods, you know
Ken: Hell, yeah
Ronnie: Hot rods and
Ken: A whole bunch of kids …
Ronnie: (laugh)
Ken: piling out of the car at one time
Ronnie: Yeah
Ken: and go, throw
Ronnie: Throw things
Ronnie: Yeah, ‘cause everybody used to hang out across the street from the Holiday, like, you’d go over there and then you go across the street, well, it was like this big ‘ole pecan trees, and everybody’d kind of hang out
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: up there, and then, you know, people drive by, you know, “hey”
Ken: I know, I know
Ronnie: (laugh) it was crazy, uh.  I’m trying to think of, uh, well, see, another family that, uh – all I’m gonna show you this stuff  real quick, see, this, I say where I lived and where I was born.  I lived in a tent, Where my dad had his first business
Ken: Wow
Ronnie: I think I’ve got a picture of it, probably
Ken: Some of those cedar choppers lived in pretty
Ronnie: There’s a picture of me and my, my dad, he was loaded up. Me and my brother.  There’s my dad with some
Ken: Yeah, yeah, yeah
Ronnie: I think that was over on Bandera Road
Ken: Look at you guys
Ronnie: I’ve got to find that tent, here
Ken: (laugh)
Ronnie: I want to show you where I lived when I was born.  I’ve seen it in here somewhere.
Ken: Those pictures stayed in pretty good shape
Ronnie: Yeah, they’re kind of old
Ken: We have a
Ronnie: See that’s me, we lived in Hunt, Texas.  Man, you talk about, I looked like a little Mexican
Ken: Uh-huh. That’s some big fish
Ronnie: See, I, we could walk to go the North Fork or the South Fork.
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: Of the Guadalupe River
Ken: Look at that.  Bass is it
Ronnie: Bass, yeah, bass
Ken: Big
Ronnie: I’ve got barefooted
Ken: Yeah, yeah
Ronnie: I mean that was the life
Ken: It was the life
Ronnie: That was the only good part of my childhood, right there, I’ll tell ya. Yeah, I don’t see that tent.
Ken: (laugh)
Ronnie: We lived in Hunt, there. That’s me with my pole.  I’ve got a picture of the tent and my first fishing pole there (laugh)
Ken: The old tackle box
Ronnie: My dad, see, he liked to hunt and fish too
Ken: Um-hum, so did my dad
Ronnie: Yeah.  Oh shit, we’re out of pictures again
Ken: I don’t think there were many deer out in the hill country by the time I was a kid.
Track 4
Ronnie: That’s a picture of Hunt School
Ken: Look at that, yeah
Ronnie: Hunt School, that’s me and my little cousin
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: My cousin, we were the same age.  That was 19…probably 56.  Damn, I don’t know what that, damn, uh
Ken: ____0:00:16.2
Ronnie: Oh, yeah
Ken: That’s a nice car
Ronnie: It was
Ken: nice car
Ronnie: It was.
Ken: _____ 0:00:21.1
Ronnie: Yeah, I used to been out here ____0:00:23.1 I was skinny then.  I’ve gotten fat and shit
Ken: I still like to go fishing on the Llano River
Ronnie: That was me and my, looks like some of my sisters in my granddad’s cedar post yard, he was selling cedar posts back then
Ken: uh-huh
Ronnie: You see that truckload
Ken: Yeah, yeah
Ronnie: I, I want to show you something else too.  I want to show you my _____0:00:41.4
Ken: rebel period, here?
Ronnie: Oh, yeah, yeah, we’is, yeah, that was back in the
Ken: (laugh) ‘60s
Ronnie: (laugh together) That’s their house there. That’s my sister (dog barking) ____ picture that came out _____ that was my mother, uh, I want to show you that tent, I can’t find it.  There is my grad, my dad
Ken: Cecil Roberts 
Ronnie: Look at that
Ken: Cedar Yard
Ronnie: Telephone B E A
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: (laugh)
Ken: B E A, yeah
Ronnie: 1 2
Ken: Cedar post staves and logs
Ronnie: This is a cool picture.  He did this big ____0:01:22.8 thing.  He had his hounds.  He loved hounds.
Ken: Yes
Ronnie: And they got a, they got a live fox up there on this ____0:01:28.6
Ken: Oh, how funny
Ronnie: Going down to Kerrville         _________0:01:31.1
Ken: Oh, my goodness  ____ that fox
Ronnie: Look at all that, that, they got the cedar hanging off the side, and the hounds, the hounds are barking. There’s foxes here
Ken: Oh, my gosh, that fox must have been going crazy
Ronnie: Oh, that’s me and my granddad there.  We was loadin’ cedar posts.
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: We used, we used to haul them
Ken: Whew
Ronnie: to south Texas, like to West Columbia, Columbus
Ken: You know, that reminds me of a question I’ve really been wanting to ask you, so, um, I’m guessing a lot of these cedar posts ended up fencing the West, I mean, other parts of, other parts of
Ronnie: You know,
Ken: You have any idea?
Ronnie:  I think, I think it started out for, uh, railroad ties
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: I’m thinking the 1880s
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: started out, you know, when they, they were really, uh, they were really, uh, humpin’ to get the railroads in
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: Texas, and, uh, that was a big part of, it started out, I think, a lot of that.  Well, barbed wire didn’t come out around until the late 1800s.
Ken: That’s right, um-hum
Ronnie: And, uh, then after the, the railroads, you know, come, got that going, ‘cause they had some good virgin timber, you know they could get these big ole’ cedar posts and make ties out of them, railroad ties
Ken: right, uh-huh
Ronnie: And, you know, they used to actually float them down the Colorado River, around Mt Bonnell and, you know, they’d float them down and they would get ‘em out of the river, and, and, uh, put ‘em on the rail, and, and, uh, you know, take ‘em and build railroads.  But then, uh, when the fencing thing come around, then it really boomed, you know.
Ken: I wonder when that, you have any, you know, when that happened, that, ‘cause the charcoal thing played out when electricity came in.
Ronnie: Yeah
Ken: That’s what I get from these books
Ronnie: Yeah, yeah, yeah it did.  Yeah, I, uh, they just did that, you know, I think the charcoal thing was just, uh, they did whatever they had to do to
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: to survive. They wasn’t, they didn’t really give a damn about money.  It was just survival.
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: You know, and
Ken: Well
Ronnie: But, you know, when, when that played out, it’s like then it’d become a, and, and, like I say, you know, it’s, if, if you lived in the northwest it would be logging
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: It’s really a logging industry
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: You’re going in and, you know, you’re assessing a plot of land, so you’re, uh, Kenneth has, a, you’ve got a 5,000 acre ranch, you know.  I come over there, and I’m a wholesaler.  I say, you know, I go around – look on your ranch, and say “yeah, you know, you’ve got some good timber here, you know
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: Kenneth, uh, you know, I’ll give you, a, I mean it, it isn’t always 10%.  It might be, uh, I remember it being, you know, 15%.  It would depend on how good the
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: quality of the timber was.  I might give you 25%
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: So, Ken, I’m gona give you, uh, you know, you’ve got some good virgin timber here
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: you know, uh, I’ll give you 25%.
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: Which is a lot, you know, you get, you know, so that’s, that’s income for the rancher, you know
Ken: Sure it is
Ronnie: or County
Ken: There wasn’t, and there wasn’t much for ranchers back then, even, I mean, it was
Ronnie: No, I mean you’d do
Ken: It was hard times
Ronnie: You’d do whatever you can get, whatever
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: whatever, you know, and, so like, see like this cedar here, it ain’t worth a crap
Ken: No, right
Ronnie: There’s no posts in it.
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: It’s, it’s young.  It’s been, this has all been chained off, or bulldozed
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie:  in the last, probably twenty, thirty years
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: You know, this, this is scrawny, there ain’t no money to be made in that shit
Ken: No
Ronnie: But, uh, anyway, you know, that’s what they did, you know
Ken: But over by the Eanes School in the cemetery, that Teague Cemetery, have you, you, well you would if you drive, I just drove along west, is it, uh, Westlake Drive.
Ronnie: Have you been over there, to the
Ken: In school
Ronnie: ___ Teague Cemetery
Ken: Um-hum.  I just went, I, ‘cause I was in that, that, that’s, the Old Eanes school is the Eanes History Center, which is
Ronnie: Right
Ken: which is not, you know
Ronnie: Have you been inside it?
Ken: I have.
Ronnie: That, that was, that old wood cook stove is my grandmother’s sister’s.  She cooked on that for sixty years.  Edna Pierce.
Ken: Huh
Ronnie: She cooked on that stove for sixty fuckin’ years.
Ken: My goodness
Ronnie: ‘Till she died.
Ken: When did she die?
Ronnie: Uh, not that many years ago.  Uh, I know they put that, they donated that stove to the Eanes History, and it’s, you know, it’s not open anymore.  You can’t buy these books. They’re not publishing these books anymore.  My daughter went and bought, she bought the last one.  She conned this lady into, this was just a few months ago, I told her, I said, I’m gonna snatch some of these up, you know, because
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: And, uh, she had like eight.  Eight volumes - or eight copies of that.  She, she had eight volumes left and, uh, she said, told my daughter she would sell her one, one issue, and she said I’m gonna donate the rest of ‘em to the Eanes Library.  And they’re not published anymore, so
Ken: I’ve gone, I bought one
Ronnie: you did. I’m glad you got one.
Ken: about a year ago. 
Ken: I don’t know where I got it from, but it was the best thing yet.  And I talked to the lady who, uh,
Ronnie: Wrote it
Ken: Who wrote it. 
Ronnie: She’s still around.  She’s
Ken: Yeah, she’s, she’s pretty young back then
Ronnie: She, she did a lot of, quite a bit of research.
Ken: She really did
Ronnie: Yeah. There’s a lot of stuff, I mean, I’m ,I’m related to so many of these people in here, I mean, it’s, uh, it’s kind-a scary.
Ken: Well, you know, this is what I found, is, is, people have told stories about cedar choppers, and about the industry, you know, in all these different sources.  But, there’s never been – hey, let’s put all these together – ‘cause I think they’re just a really, and interesting people.  A people who didn’t want to absorb in like you said with the rest of the, with the rest of the modern world
Ronnie: right, exactly
Ken: You know
Ronnie: See that’s my, that’s my, the way I thought of this too. 
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: It’s, it’s, they, they didn’t want to be bothered
Ken: Uh-uh
Ronnie: And, you know, if you look back at the history of the, the Appalachia area, it’s like Eanes was just a little colony of that.
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: It’s like these people don’t want to be, I mean, you know, if the damn, uh, census taker come around, they don’t want ‘em
Ken: Uh-uh
Ronnie: ShoShit, you know, I mean
Ken: Well
Ronnie: They don’t want to be bothered
Ken: Emmett Shelton was telling a story about when a couple of professors moved out to the Eanes School District, and, and there was lice, right, and so they say, well we can’t, like, solve this problem unless we get everybody to go in
Ronnie: (laugh) good luck!
Ken: So Emmett Shelton had to go around, one by one, house by house, and, and, explain, you know, and say
Ronnie: They would
Ken: Would it, would it be OK if
Ronnie: They would accept him.
Ken: Yeah, they would accept him and they would then let ‘em do it.
Ronnie: But they ain’t gonna accept
Ken: But this is back
Ronnie: nobody
Ken: Uh-uh. This is in ’60, back in 1960.
Ronnie: Oh yeah?
Ken: ___1950s, you know
Ronnie: yeah.  Uh, a Homer Teague, he’s buried in Roberts Cemetary, they call it the Roberts-Teague Cemetery. 
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: He had two sons.  Stonewall Jackson and Robert E. Lee Teague. And they would bring cedar over – the two boys.  I mean, I knew Homer
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: And I remember my granddad knew him, Cecil
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: Uh, but they would bring cedar over, I mean, these guys looked like they were right out of fucking Appalachia.  I mean, you know, they’re, shit, they’re rough (laugh).
Ken: Were they, you know
Ronnie: But that’s the way they grew up
Ken: I know.
Ronnie: You know
Ken: You’ve got to be really tough to do that
Ronnie: I mean, they were tough.  I mean, like, Homer Teague, shit, he used to walk around with a pistol.  He was, he considered his self like the self-appointed sheriff (laugh) of that area.  And he’s buried in that
Ken: Is, is he the one that, that, like had a feather in his hat, or a rattlesnake around
Ronnie: Oh, probably
Ken: That they rode around, yeah
Ronnie: I mean, he, he lived, well I remember him when he lived, there was this old school house that sat right on the corner of Patterson Lane and Bee Caves Road.  And Patterson Lane is, went into my family, my whole family’s ranch.  You know, they probably had a, 1,500 acres.  Wasn’t worth a shit, but
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: you know.  Uh, but he lived right on the corner there, in this old school house.  It was the old Brewton Springs School House that they moved up there and he lived there, you know, I mean, uh, he was crusty, shit, man, I mean, you know, nobody jacked with him
Ken: (laugh)
Ronnie: But he’s buried in the Roberts Teague Cemetery
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: You know. It’s pretty, pretty
Ken: I was going to ask you, ‘cause I was there and there was some of these straight, straight, tall cedar trees about the size of this post, here. 
Ronnie: It’s a nice post
Ken: This is the one, that, some of the ones you did?
Ronnie: No, I just did them on my fence out there
Ken: OK.  I saw the, but there in the cemeteries – tall ,straight, maybe two or three times as tall as that
Ronnie: Yeah, they’re old, that’s an old tree
Ken: See that’s got to be old growth cedar
Ronnie: Oh, yeah.  That’s old growth cedar
Ken: Yeah.  And excellent posts.
Ronnie: Yeah, oh yeah, that’s, that’s, I mean, yeah, that’s what I’m planning on. I’m not be buried there, but I’m gona put my memorial there
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: I want my kids to maybe help keep that cemetery, ‘cause it’s hard to keep people to,
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: The cemeteries get dried up, ‘cause I know, I’ve got like several family cemeteries that we have no access to.  Like, there’s a, in Bee Caves, on Little Barton Creek, there’s the Otten (?) Cemetery that’s on private property.  Uh, there’s the Freitag Cemetery that’s, you know, it’s all getting industrialized around it, you know, and, uh, then out at the Patterson Cemetery and the Roberts Cemetery, and, uh, you know, it’s kind of sad, and I want be.  We had that, uh, we had a history, I finally got a historical marker on the road at Teague Cemetery over there because, uh, and we had to get the, the, uh, neighborhood association to go along with it because they had to donate, you know, it was, it was in a, actually a what do you call them, a green, green space area.  But anyway
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: And so we got an easement to it
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: And stuff like that
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: So it’s, but, um, anyway
Ken: I wonder how many, you know, back you were talking about somebody cutting posts and 10%.  I wonder how many posts a man could cut in a day with an axe.
Ronnie: (sigh) Those guys were good.  Like the Browns that I was telling you about.
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: They were good with an axe. Mikey stayed, uh, Charlie, and they talk about Mike, Charlie, and, I called him Baldy, I always named him Baldy, but he’s got another name in this book.  But, uh, they were very efficient with an axe, I mean, it’s amazing
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: ‘Cause they used a very sharp, sharp axe, I mean, they, you know like most people, you know, you know you hack on it and it’ll be like, but if it ain’t sharp.   But they knew how to use an axe, I mean, every, you don’t waste a, a motion.
Ken: Right
Ronnie: They didn’t, they didn’t waste a motion.
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: You know, like everything was, you know, just, you know, everything, ever, every motion had a purpose.  And they’d just go around the tree, and of course they’d come out with chain saws about in the ‘60s, you know.
Ken: I wondered about that, about 1960?
Ronnie: Yeah
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: Uh, Baldy used a chain saw.  Mikey and, uh, Charlie used an axe.  So they, they brought some in with an axe and then, uh, Baldy cut it with a chain saw.  But, you know, they were pretty uh, primitive uh, chainsaws, you know, back in the day
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: You know, they were just, they weren’t like they are now, man, like, man these things now, you know, get ya a Stihl or something like it, right
Ken: Yeah   
Ronnie: Yeah, it’s pretty interesting. But they cut beautiful cedar, I mean, they had some beautiful cuts on them.  You know, they had to be six foot long.  Now that cedar, like when I went and bought them posts up there, they cut ‘em seven foot long, you know.  They, like, cut ‘em longer than they used to
Ken: Uh-hum
Ronnie: At, uh, by one of the Stevens Cedar Yard up there to buy to buy some, my posts there, ‘cause I didn’t know, you know, that was the closest place I could find to buy a post
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: I think they’ve got a little, uh, cedar yard up there now, but the other side of, uh Johnson City is a small yard
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: you know, but, uh
Ken: Who, speaking of cedar posts – right there at the turnoff – there’s some massive cedar posts, uh, right there on Hamilton Pool Road.  Turning, turning left on, you know?
Ronnie: Uh, where?
Ken: On the right hand side, probably a little, looks like a restaurant there, or something, I wasn’t paying a whole lot of attention
Ronnie: Are they for sale, or – oh, oh, I know where you’re talking about, I know where.  That’s, uh, that’s red cedar.
Ken: OK
Ronnie: That comes from Bastrop
Ken: OK
Ronnie: That’s a different, that’s a different
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: They call this, like, Mountain Cedar
Ken: Uh-huh, yeah. It didn’t look right
Ronnie: They bring that up and they make mantles out of it.  They make siding out of it
Ken: OK
Ronnie: Yeah, they’ve got a mill there.  It’s, it’s, it’s nice,
Ken: I see
Ronnie: Yeah, it’s pretty cool.  They even have some big ‘ole Mesquite logs out there that they make mantles, uh, out of this wood, really cool
Ken: That would be
Ronnie: Really cool.  But, yeah, I know what you’re talking about, yeah. That’s, that’s, that’s from, uh, east
Ken: Yeah, East Texas
Ronnie: Bastrop
Ken: OK. I’ve never seen it there
Ronnie: Yeah, it’s, it’s different.  It’s not as hardy as Mountain Cedar
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: Like this is mountain Cedar.  They, uh, I called it, you know, I’ve always referred to it as red cedar.  It, it rots a lot quicker than mountain cedar.  It doesn’t have as much oils in it
Ken: Right
Ronnie: Uh, mountain cedar has more oil in it.
Ken: On our place we still have one, one side of the place 
Ronnie: These are all out of mountain cedar
Ken: Oh, absolutely.  We just, we just called it cedar (laugh)
Ronnie: Yeah.
Ken: Damn cedar! (laugh) somebody said!
Ronnie: My granddaddy used to take me over there and he showed me these fences that
Track 5
Ronnie: That he’d build.  Um, I want to tell you, he made a dollar a day.  He would carry his crowbar, this is over in, uh, close to Lake Austin.  Back then it was a river, you know, they didn’t have the dams built
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: And, uh, we’d drive, he’d, I’d go, he’d like to go reminisce every once in a while.  You know, we’d go over there, we’d stop and he’d get out and, he knew, he was blind, but he knew where he was at.
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: He had a good sense of direction.  And, uh, he’d check them posts.  He said he would take him a sack with a, a, what’d they used to call that?  A salt pork? Salt pork.  Fried salt pork and a biscuit for lunch
Ken: For lunch
Ronnie: And a jug of water and his crow bar and he’d walk a mile or two and go where they’d dig these holes, and he, he just, he loved to get out.  He’d show you the post, you know, when they were still there, like from the 19—probably twenties, because he went blind in the forties.  And, uh
Ken: There’s no harder work
Ronnie: Oh, shit, I mean, I think about that. You know, I feel so privileged.  And yeah, but, education wasn’t important like. My granddad has six, uh, nine kids.  Nine kids.  He was fucking blind.  And, uh, three boys, six girls.  He sent the girls to school
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: He didn’t have much use for girls.  But boys were, he’d work them.
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: Yeah
Ken: I wonder what age do they, uh, start cutting cedar, doing that kind of work?
Ronnie: Uh,
Ken: Fourteen
Ronnie: Oh, no, shit, no. Eight or ten
Ken: Oh no
Ronnie: Oh, they started me out, work, I, I, I didn’t, I never cut cedar, we used to cut some firewood
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: And, uh
Ken: With an axe?
Ronnie: No, back then the chainsaw was around. 
Ken: Uh-huh, yeah
Ronnie: But, uh, he threw my back.
Ken: Yeah!
Ronnie: Uh, you know, everybody thinks that time in the Fire Department did me in but that ain’t what did me in.  I, I used to load those, hell time I was nine, or ten years old I’d be up there handing them posts up. We had loaded them by hand
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: One at a time.  I mean, you, you take a fifty or sixty foot trailer, a flat, they called them a float, you know, with a truck, tractor on the front of them and you could put like five or six decks, you know, six foot long cedar, and you’d hand them up one at a time.  Well that’s what I did. And they would keep me out of school.  I mean
Ken: What size were these.  Were they as big as these posts here? Or were they
Ronnie: oh, various diameter
Ken: Various diameter
Ronnie: Yeah, that, or bigger
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: It depended on what the people wanted, you know, they could be that big
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: And, I mean, you know, you’d hump ‘em up, I mean, I would
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: You know, and it’s, it’s just repetitive
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: Lifting, lifting
Ken: Yes
Ronnie: I mean, and all summer long, uh, every day when I got home from school, uh, they’d keep me out of school like if they had a truck coming in to be loaded up.  They’d keep, ‘cause education wasn’t important.  I mean
Ken: So, I wonder where these trucks went to with those cedar
Ronnie: Uh, all over, uh, a lot of them, like I said, lumberyards like, uh,
Ken: Calcasieu?
Ronnie: No, further, like, you know
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: like West Columbia, down on the coast
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: Uh, you know the lumberyard would sell these cedars
Ken: For posts, probably
Ronnie: For fence posts
Ken: For fence posts.
Ronnie: yeah, and I think that’s before, before, uh, steel posts got popular
Ken: Right
Ronnie: Now, you know, every fence you see know is, uh
Ken: T-posts
Ronnie: Oh, yeah, they’ve got T-posts, and then they have iron, they used that old drilling steel
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: You know, for corner braces and then they put t-posts
Ken: Right
Ronnie: And, that’s the way to do it.
Ken: Oh, it is
Ronnie: Like those posts out in my fence, they were like seven bucks a piece.
Ken: Is that right!
Ronnie: Seven dollars a piece
Ken: I have to look closer at this fence ‘cause what I saw was a, I saw a smaller fence
Ronnie: Oh, the stays
Ken: The stays
Ronnie: Yeah, the stays
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: Yeah, you know, that’s, that’s just, uh, there not in the ground, they just kind’a support the wire, but I just did that mainly for looks. We like the security of having a fence, you know, where people can’t just drive in.
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: You know, you don’t have the solicitors
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: You know, the Jehovah’s Witnesses and shit, I just like, I guess it just goes back to my privacy thing, I like my privacy, you know
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: I don’t give my gate code, the only people who’ve got my gate code is my kids, you know, and if somebody’s coming over – if they can’t call they can’t come in – ‘cause I’ll, you know, if they call I’ll go open the gate. 
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: I don’t give anybody the code.  I mean it ain’t a big deal
Ken: No
Ronnie: It’s just, it’s just a privacy thing, you know, but, uh, yeah, it’s, it was the wild west over there, you know, I mean, hon, honestly, Ken, I’d hate to of lived over there in that time. Then it was a hard-assed time
Ken: It was hard and there’s nothing ____
Ronnie: But they liked that
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: They liked that, you know, they___ There’s a Brown Cemetery over there, actually, uh, you know where that, there’s a little, uh, convenience store, you familiar with 360, OK, 360 and Bee Caves?
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: Got that
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: Uh, if you go west on Bee Caves it’s probably the first street, the first street to the left.  There’s the Brown, the old Brown Cemetery.  It’s not very well maintained.  But that was
Ken: But it’s open?
Ronnie: Yeah, you can go in, you can go in there and look around,
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: Yeah, and, uh, you know, I went over there, and looked around, and I always wondered where Mike and Charlie – my granddad used to take them money.  I remember when I was a kid that, you know, they’d get in a little financial bind. I was like, uh, I was like his right hand man, I guess.  ‘Cause I was, you know, was like, he’d say, I tell everybody I always thought my name was goddammit boy until I was ten years old. (laugh)
Ken (Laugh together)
Ronnie: Goddammit boy.  He used to get mad at me.  He’d say goddammit boy.  He’d say come on boy.  He called me boy.  We’d go over there, we’d go over there and, uh, they lived, at that time they were living over there off of, uh, uh, Brody Lane, just a little shack, you know, and, he’d go over there and he’d give ‘em some money, you know, somebody was sick or they needed a little money
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: They would help ‘em, you know, he would help ‘em out
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: He had two billfolds, I mean, he always wore kakis.  And, uh, he was blind, but he, he’d keep like his hundreds and his fifties and twenties in one billfold and his ones and fives and tens in the other billfold.
Ken: Huh
Ronnie: And, uh, shit, he was always loaded with money, I mean, you know, just cash – they did everything on cash
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: When they, when they, uh, we had to put him in a nursing home we went in there and, uh, they had a metal box, shit, there was thousands of dollars.  I mean just a little metal box sitting in the closet. 
Ken: Um
Ronnie: They was old, I mean, some of that money was so damn old it had, uh, what did they used to call them, uh, silver certificates or something
Ken: Yeah, or,
Ronnie: Before, yeah, I mean they were like old
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: I mean this shit, they had for god knows how long
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: I mean, they didn’t, I guess during the Depression they didn’t, people got turned off of banks I guess
Ken: I guess so.
Ronnie: Yeah, you know, they were afraid of banks or something, you know.
Ken: I’ve always wondered, uh, what brought, you know, I mean, I know what ca, people came, you know, from my, my grandfather came from Tennessee too
Ronnie: Oh, really?
Ken: yeah, and, uh, you know, and, uh, I just found out about it, but anyway, you, you know, that was way back, that was when he fought in the Civil War and all that, 1800s and all that stuff.  But I’m, I’m wondering, did they, they didn’t come here to cut cedar.  I mean, you know, when they ended up, when they, I was wondering if they were ever farmers first.  If they ever, you know, ‘cause cotton was, cotton was king
Ronnie: I don’t think that the, the Irish, see, ha, here’s my take on that.  The Germans, you know, they, they wanted farmers when they was asking for these immigrants
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: They wanted farmers.
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: you know.  The Germans come, you see, my mother’s side of the family is all German – pure bred German, so I’m like half German, half Irish
Ken: Exactly what I am
Ronnie: I grew up in a, I grew up in an Irish culture. The Germans stayed put.  If they landed in New Braunfels, if they landed in Castell, Fredericksburg,
Ken: Um-hum, Um-hum
Ronnie: They stayed put. But it’s like the damn Irish, they were always looking for a little greener pasture, you know, like, they just, they were restless
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: You know.  They, they, to me, they’re the ones that settled the west
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: ‘Cause they were always looking for something better.  You know, they hopped around, they didn’t stay put too much.
Ken: Well I wonder then when the finally got to the Hill Country didn’t they, they, seems like they stayed put quite a few generations.
Ronnie: Some of them did, but a lot of the just kept moving on, I mean, Yeah, ‘cause they moved, you know, like I say, they kind of migrated down from Pennsylvania
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: Down into Appalachia, and then when Texas opened up
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: You know, in the 1830s, you know, the, the, they declared independence from Mexico, man, they just come swarming in and they just kept moving, I mean, they call that, uh, what was that word they used to use for the westward expansion, uh, anyway
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: They had a word for it, but anyway, they, they, I think they were the ones that kept moving, ‘cause the Germans and just about every other culture, just, stayed put
Ken: Right
Ronnie: you know, I guarantee, there’s generations of, all in around Fredericksburg, their families go back to, you know, 1840s
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: You know.  They stayed put.  But, it’s like the Irish were just, always a little more restless.
Ken: Well, what I’m thinking is, then they finally get to the Hill Country and there’s nowhere further west to go.  There really isn’t.  I mean, you’re in west Texas then.
Ronnie: Yeah, well, that’s true
Ken: You know, so may, it could have just been, this was the final frontier.
Ronnie: Yeah, the final frontier
Ken: I don’t…
Ronnie: I, I don’t know why they stayed.  You know, it’s like, uh,
Ken: ‘Cause they really
Ronnie: Joseph Roberts is buried in that Roberts Cemetery, er, Roberts Teague Cemetery, uh, he served in the Union Army
Ken: Huh!
Ronnie: He was from, um, Missouri, and the story goes that he had a wife up there but he stayed here after the Civil, I guess after he was cut loose, you know, from the war.  He settled here for some reason, but he got married again so the story goes that he had another wife in
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: Missouri, you know, the truth, I haven’t really researched it that much yet.  (laugh)
Ken: (laugh together)
Ronnie: Some things – I keep telling my Aunt, she did quite a bit of genealogical research, and I kept telling her, I said “Aunt Virginia,” I said “you know you’re gonna find out things you probably don’t want to know.”  I said, I kept telling her, I said “You’re going to find out we’re related to the Teagues, the damn Simpsons, the Daugherty’s”, (laugh)
Ken: (laugh together)
Ronnie: Sure enough, we are, you know, directly, I call them more family ties.
Ken: Uh-huh, yeah
Ronnie: It was a small world over there
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: My granddad, he rode a horse when he was, when he was courting my grandmother, he rode a horse to church, he’d go to church, he’d ride his horse and she’d walk along as she’d go back to her house and they had a little courting thing, they had a dog trot house, which I’ve got a picture of it in here, if I can put my dog up maybe show you
Ken: Uh-huh.  I’d like to see that
Ronnie: They had to sit out there and it was very proper, you know.
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: He had to sit out there, you know, like we’re sitting here, there was a table and two chairs and they call it a, (cleaning throat) courting table
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: And, uh, that’s the way they, they got their thing going then.
Ken: Tell me, were there any Roberts from, uh, on Bee Cave?  You mentioned Bee Cave
Ronnie: Oh, Yeah, they, he grew up over there, yeah.  Yeah, Joseph Roberts donated the land for that cemetery
Ken: OK, how about Bull Creek? 
Ronnie: Uh
Ken: ‘cause there’s a whole ‘nother group of people that lived over there
Ronnie: Ah, yeah, there were some roughians up there, you know, I call them roughians.  They were just same brand, same brand of people
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: you know, they liked, ‘cause there was some deep dark canyons over there, you know, you could live over there, and hell, nobody’d know.
Ken: Have you been on Bull Creek Road, Spicewood Springs Road
Ronnie: I haven’t been over there in years. 
Ken: It’s a trip back to the past
Ronnie: Is it?
Ken: If you turn left, off of 360, OK, Spicewood Springs Road goes all the way from the Mopac, you know, all the way out to 183.
Ronnie: It comes out on 183?
Ken: It comes out way on 183, but, if you, if you’re going on 360 go past 2222
Ronnie: Yeah
Ken: there’s a light there. Turn left.  And it hadn’t changed
Ronnie: Yeah
Ken: I mean, it’s all on both sides, dark, deep canyons
Ronnie: Kind-of spooky looking, isn’t it
Ken: Yeah, I mean, way, way up high are all these fancy subdivisions.
Ronnie: That’s where the Simons come from, by that Bull Creek
Ken: OK
Ronnie: See there’s the Boatrights out there
Ken: Yes
Ronnie: Boatrights, uh, actually one of my sisters married a Boatright
Ken: Uh-huh
Ronnie: From that, I call them a clan, or whatever
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: You know, they were, all in backwoods
Ken: Um-hum
Ronnie: They were backwoods people, you know, just
Ken: Yeah
Ronnie: They, they just liked
Ken:  (goes into hummingbird conversation)
END